Substantive Conversations

By Michael Shoemaker, M.A.,CRC, CPM, USCPM,
Guest Author

On July 9, Utah celebrated its 20th graduation ceremony of Certified Public Managers® with 130 graduates, its largest graduating class ever. Also, there was a reception commemorating the 20th year since the birth of the Utah Society of Certified Public Managers®. As I listened to Craig Odekirk, the founding president of our society, and others, I paused to reflect on why I continue each year to renew my membership with the American Academy of Certified Public Managers® and the Utah Society of Certified Public Mangers®. Among several significant reasons, I came to the conclusion that my membership is largely tied to the value I have found in substantive conversations with other members.

Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary defines substantive as “having substance: involving matters of practical importance to all.”  From my perspective, substantive conversations are conversations where all or nearly all parties grow, learn, and contribute.

I experienced one such conversation several years ago at an annual AACPM Professional Development Conference. At the welcome on Sunday night, I introduced myself and began talking with a woman from one part of the country and a man from a different part of the country. As we spoke, I discovered that we each differed in the amount of years as a manager and in our professional backgrounds. The other man had  more than 20 years of managerial experience, whereas the woman and I had been supervisors for a relatively short period of time.

During this conversation, the woman asked for both our opinions about what she should do regarding a situation at work. We both responded that we would be willing to listen to her and see if we could suggest anything. The woman said she had a close friend at work with whom she had be going out to lunch several times a week. She valued and enjoyed the companionship of this friend. However, she said about eight weeks earlier she had been promoted to a supervisory role in a different office just down the hall. This new position the woman took did not make her a supervisor over her friend. Nevertheless, her friend began immediately to show some coolness and they had not been out together for lunch since the promotion. Finally, the woman asked both of us what she might do to retain her friend and the new position that she really enjoyed. At this point in the conversation, I could tell from her face and body language that just by sharing her concern with someone else, she was more relaxed and calm about the situation.

The other man in the conversation asked questions to gain more information about the details of the situation and to make certain whatever he recommended would be relevant to the specific context. He analyzed the situation based on his many years as a manager and gave three suggestions of different avenues she could take in this scenario. I listened and learned several things based on sound managerial concepts and principles that I had not considered.

From his suggestions, the woman responded and came up with several additional things she thought she could do to get together again with her friend. His words had acted as a catalyst and a starting point for her to develop her own proposed solutions. Her comments led to new, unique ideas neither the other man nor I had considered. Some of the ideas seemed to emerge from comments to which we had all three contributed.

Next, she turned to me and asked for advice. I told her I had limited experience as a supervisor at this point in my career, but I could give her some ideas based on my education and training as a Marriage and Family Therapist. These could possibly help with the dynamics between her and her friend. I shared what I could and listened further. While listening, I discovered some things I wanted to change in my own office on my return.

At the end of the conversation, the woman, the other man, and I thanked each other for the experience we had shared together. The woman expressed uncertainty about whether her ideas would work, but the conversation gave her hope they might. All participants had contributed something and, in so doing, had grown and learned from the interaction – the conversation was personally beneficial to each of us. It continues to be of benefit to me.

The energy, dynamics, and positive nature of such conversations can be difficult to describe in words or reproduce consistently. However, for those who have experienced a conversation like this, they know they would like to do so again. I look forward to many more years of substantive conversations and service as a member of the American Academy of Certified Public Managers®. I will enjoy meeting you at the upcoming 21st Annual AACPM Professional Development Conference.

Any comments or feedback regarding this article can be sent to mtshoemaker@utah.gov or you can call me directly at (801) 538-7746.

© Copyright 2009, American Academy of Certified Public Managers®